Eid in open ground

[Truthseeker]

assalamu alaikum Sheikh,

As we all know that Proplet (saw) offered the eid prayer outside the usual mosque and away from the city in an open ground, what should be our practice.

Most of the places hold salat-ul-eid in the respective mosques here in melbourne. Is it necessary to go to a ground?

[Aslam AbuIsmaeel]

Wa alaikumusalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh

This post: My explanation and suggestions for Australia
Next post: scholars view from Ibn hajr in Fath Bari Sharh Sahih Bukhari
Third post: scholars view from Nawawi in Sharh Sahih Muslim


My suggestion about Eid prayer in open ground or in Masjid in Australia

The Prophet (s) prayed Eid prayer outside Madinah in a large open area so that is a Sunnah i.e. the way of the Prophet (s) for us that is recommended.  So, it is recommended but not compuslory as he did not order it nor something of that nature to make it obligatory.  But what the Prophet (s) did is a Sunnah for us to follow.

However, if people in Melbourne are praying in many places in Masjid, do we pray or not in there?  Or do we start a Eid salah elsewhere?

In order to answer this question, lets understand the practise of the Prophet (s) so we can follow it as he did or wanted.

Medinah then was a small city.  The Masjid with its courtyard today extends roughly to the outskirts of Madinah of that time.  The Masjid of the Prophet was very small back then but large enough for normal daily prayers and large enough for friday prayers.  But at Eid every Muslim man and woman; adult and child; menstruating woman or not menstruating were encouraged strongly by the Prophet to come to the Eid gathering.  That masjid in the small city could not hold this number of people from Madinah and its sorrounding 'suburban tribes'.  Therefore, the Prophet (s) sought a place large enough for this - i.e. he went out of the small Madinah with its small streets etc went just outside its borders to an open stretch of land that could fit all the people for the Eid prayers.

Some scholars commented that this added to he awe for Allah in our hearts.

So, the Prophet sought a large enough space for people to come and pray all together in such huge numbers - he did not specifically seek an open space for the sake of an open roofless space.

Therefore, for us now, we should also seek one very large ground - like the Melbourne Cricket Ground (MCG) if we can that will enable all of Melbourne's Muslims to congregate and pray together in one place - a place within the city or outside it as long as it is large for everyone.  This would be ideal as all Muslims of one city should try to pray in one area for Eid - as much as is possible.

However, due to various limitations in organising such a thing for the time being, Muslims may congregate to pray Eid prayer in any large areas that would accomodate as large gathering as is possible to manage organisational wise.  This might be in an open area or it might be in a large Masjid with its sorrounding car parks or streets or parks.  This is what Muslims do, for example, in Lakemba Masjid in Sydney, i.e. extend onto the street adjacent to the Masjid and block off the streets and put prayer mats for large crowds to gather together - given Lakemba Masjid itself is huge.  In Melbourne, something like this is done in big and major Masjids such as Preston Masjid and Doncastor Masjid and I think in Lysterfield and Broadmeadows Masjids etc - not on the streets but in grounds within Masjid or adjacent to it.

This accommodates large crowds so this is a good attempt and it is acceptable and there is nothing wrong with this.  Especially due to weather changes possible, if they pray in such large Masjids in such manners with overhead canopy's for Eid due to it being easier to organise than a ground outside, then that is fine.

If that is being done in Masjids then we should pray in such large Masjids of largest possible gatherings.

Ofcourse, doing all together in one large ground or indoor ground due to weather is even better.  But due to difficulty of organising it, if Muslims in Melbourne are praying in large Masjids in the manner described above, then that is where the rest of us should pray if we are in that part of the city.  We should not start another Eid prayer in the vicinity of these Masjids saying that is Sunnah.  Sunnah is not to divide the Muslims within same area into two Eid gatherings!  The very purpose of praying outside is defeated if we went to an open space near the Masjid and did a second Eid gathering near a Masjid!!  It is better for such people to co-operate with the Masjid in the area and agree to all pray together in a large venue - but not divide up merely for the sake of "open roofless" venue.   The goal is not "roofless open" but the goal is gathering of large numbers of Muslims united in one place.

So, in summary, if the large Masjids are organising Eid prayers in Masjid due to convenience of organising it - and they organise Eid prayer in grounds within the Masjid for the larger Eid numbers (or on adjacent streets blocked from traffic for Eid prayer), then that is doing the same purpose of praying as the Prophet did  outside in open grounds since the cities back then were small, masjids were small, the streets were narrow.  Praying in such large Eid gatherings in Melbourne is more in keeping with Sunnah than dividing Muslims in one area with claims that you are praying in a "roofless open" area so you leave the big gathering of Muslims in Masjid and its grounds and instead go to a park near by creating divisions among Muslims whereas the whole purpose was meant to create unity!! 

However, the best is if all Muslims in one area can agree to pray together in the largest possible venue to accomodate the largest possible numbers of Muslims in one large ground. Remember that praying in open roofless area is not the Illah (reason) of ruling of the Prophet's Eid prayer outside his usual small Masjid - it seems more likely to be to have a large area to accommodate the large Eid prayer crowds.  That is why for the Friday prayer, small Masjids of neighborhood used to be closed so people can gather in the larger central Masjids for more unity.  At Eid even more so - whether that is in large grounds or if difficult to organise then in large Masjids and their surrounds.

And Allah knows best.

[Aslam AbuIsmaeel]

Assalamu alaikum

Here is what Ibn Hajar said about praying Eid in Musallah or Masjid - translated from Fath Bari volume two page 581 (Dar Salam Edition):

Ibn hajr (Allah shower mercy on him) said,

"Shafiee said in Umm, 'It has reached us that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) used to go out in the two Eid to the Musallah at Madina and thus did those after him unless if it were for the reason of rainfall or such things (which prevented them from Eid at Musallah) and thus do the people of cities, generally, except for the people of Makkah.' Then he (i.e. Imam Shafiee) pointed that the reason for that (i.e. people of Makkah not going out to pray in open ground outside Masjid and city) was the expansiveness of the Masjid (of Makkah) and the narrowness of the (other) sides of Makkah.

Then he (i.e. Imam shafiee) said, 'so if a city was populated and then the Masjid of its people was large enough for them for the Eids (prayer) then I do not believe they should go out from it (i.e. from Masjid); so if it was not large enough for them, the prayer in it (i.e. Masjid) would be disliked but they do not have to repeat.'

What this means is that the reason (for praying outside or in a Masjid) revolves around the narrowness or expansiveness and NOT on exiting to a desert area for its own sake for the goal is to achieve the general gathering and if that is achieved in a Masjid, given its (i.e. prayer in Masjid's) superiority, then that is more befitting."  End quote from Ibn Hajr in Fath ul Bari, volume two, page 581.

[Aslam AbuIsmaeel]

Assalamu alaikum

Here is what Nawawi (Rahimahullah) said about this issue in Sharh (explanation) of sahih muslim while explaining the hadith of sahih muslim, "The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) used to go out on the day of Adha and the day of fitr (i.e. two eid days) and he would begin with prayer (before khutba)."

Nawawi said,

"This is an evidence for the one who says that is desired to go out for the prayer of Eid to the Musallah (i.e. out of Masjid) and that it is better than doing it (i.e. Eid prayer) in the Masjid; and this is what people do in most cities.  As for the people of Makkah, they do not pray it except in the Masjid (i.e. Masjid Haraam) from the first period (of Islam).

And our companions (i.e. Shafiee scholars) have two views on this issue:

One of the two views is that (praying the Eid prayer in open space) in desert is better due to this hadith.
The second of the two views - and that is the more correct of the two opinions according to a majority of them - is that the (Eid prayer) in the Masjid is better unless if it is too narrow (not enough space to pray in Masjid).  They said, 'The people of Makkah prayed in the Masjid due to it being large and expansive and the Prophet (s.a.w) only went out to the Musallah due to the small-space of the Masjid, so this bears evidence that the Masjid is better if it is large enough."  End quote from Nawawi.

Explanation of Sahih Muslim by Nawawi, Chapter of the two Eid prayers, Explanation of hadith number 889.
 

[Aslam AbuIsmaeel]

Assalamu alaikum

Here is an interesting fact and data:

Where is the 'Desert' open ground place where the Prophet (s.a.w) and Sahabah prayed the Eid prayer - a spot that was then outside the city of Madinah but shows to us how amazingly small the city of Madinah was back then ...

Ibn Hajar says in Fath-ul-Bari in explanation of Hadith number 956, chapter Khurug ilaa al-musallah bi ghairi minbar:

"To Musallah: It is a spot in Madinah well known - between it and the door of the (Prophet's) Masjid is a thousand arms length (i.e. from tip of fingers to the elbow - 'dhiraa'; i.e. about 350 to 500 meters only); Umar ibn Shaba said that in (his book) Akhbaar Madinah relating from Abu Ghassan al-Kannani, the Companion of (Imam) Malik."  End quote from Ibn Hajar.


This is how small the city of Madinah was back then!!  Of course, there used to be tribes that used to live at places a little distant from the Masjid Nabawi, such as the Awaali, and further away the banu salamah at what is now the Masjid Qiblatain (an hours walk from Masjid Nabawi roughly).  Now, the spot of Eid prayer is marked by a small Masjid and is just outside the present day stretch of the courtyard of the Masjid Nabawi!